NBA Chat, Do we have a season? We may have a season... TOPIC OPTIONS

[SparksALot]

That said, glad to see the deal not go down for completely selfish reasons.

Hey, me too! *high-5* Really though, I know Odom and Gasol aren't spring chickens, but seeing Brandon Roy retire today because of his knees... man I know Paul is the best of the best at PG, but already having knee issues at 26? That scares me. I don't like taking away the one thing the Lakers had more than any other team, their front-court length and depth, for a guy who may end up being hurt all the time.

[jumpingoff]

The Los Angeles Times is reporting on its website that there is now no avenue available for the Los Angeles Lakers to appeal a league ruling blocking the trade of New Orleans Hornets guard Chris Paul to the Lakers in a three-team deal forged yesterday.

The New Orleans Hornets' Chris Paul is one of the players scheduled to meet this weekend with union and league officials.The paper is quoting unidentified National Basketball Association sources as saying the league considers the trade to have been blocked by New Orleans and not the league itself.

This is total BS. So now they are saying that WE blocked our own trade? Convenient....owners say "no", trade is killed, then spun as hornets killed it. F this.

[Fitz]

Per Darren Rovell:

On Thursday night, word swirled around the Twitterverse that Chris Paul could be on his way to the Lakers in a trade with the Rockets and the Hornets.

At best, the Hornets get a couple of starters and a draft pick.

At worst? An all out PR disaster for the league within minutes of ratifying its 10-year Collective Bargaining Agreement with the players.

When leagues have owned or controlled teams in the past, they have been careful to tread very lightly. While dumping players has less of an impact on the team's value than teams that aren't for sale, leagues don't want to get into a position of having the fans believe that they are trading players in order to control outcomes that are favorable to the league at large, namely large markets winning.

Out of all the four major leagues, the league the fans think have the most control over competitive balance is the NBA by a mile.

Now, let's get a little deeper.

New Orleans is a sensitive place to pick a fight. Ever since Katrina, it has been a place where no one in corporate America wants to be caught abandoning. Louisiana is the fifth poorest state in the nation.

They spend money on the Saints and the visiting teams love to make road trips to Bourbon Street. They've done less than stellar with the Hornets despite Paul's presence, though they claim to have sold 10,000 season tickets for this upcoming season.

Sure, there's the something for nothing rationale: Might as well get something for Chris Paul before he becomes a free agent next year.

The NBA saved New Orleans when it bought the team a year ago from George Shinn, but now it's their investment. The league is better off selling the team while Paul is there (assuming it is committed to the city) than to sell it when he's gone and the team is in financial straits.

Sure, you won't get anything for Chris Paul after this year, but the NBA doesn't need him past this year. Trade Paul and the books look deflated. The value drops. Use Paul until you can get a new owner committed and the league is golden.

Of course, if the league is willing to approve a move by a new owner -- where they will realize the most value -- it doesn't matter what the Hornets do with Paul. Their value will skyrocket like the Expos did when Major League Baseball sent them to Washington D.C. and drove up the prices.

Lastly, imagine you're a large market owner and David Stern just convinced you to quadruple your revenue sharing payment all in the name of competitive balance. Then he goes and ships Paul to the Lakers. Are you happy?

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45606670

[SparksALot]

I find that argument to be utter bunk for the matter that it is assuming anyone who is purchasing the team to not know a thing about basketball, and how to run a team. Basically it's assuming some dumbass drooling billionaire will jump in saying "Oooooh Chris Paaaaauuuul izzz guuuuud!" without seeing the very literal signs that he will not re-sign with the team. As in, him saying he will not re-sign with the team. It is assuming that said drooling prospective owner will not see how devastating it can be for a team to see a superstar leave without getting nothing in return, and not have paid example to that happening recently in Cleveland with LeBron, and before that in Orlando with Shaq.

"Something for nothing" is not a rationale, it's a sound business strategy. The Jazz were lauded last year for trading Deron Williams and getting a great deal in return for him. It is a smart business move to do, and and decent businessman who is going to purchase a pro sports team should easily be able to see that.

No matter how the owners try to rationalize this away, with the PR hit they took from this and how much more of a muddy, screwed up situation it leaves, they have devalued the franchise much more than trading away Paul would have.

[Fitz]

What else could explain Stern's move then? I agree with you that, in the long term, it seems illogical due to the fact that everyone knows Paul will not re-sign with the Hornets, but that doesn't change the fact that his presence on the roster adds value to the franchise. I guess what Rovell is saying is that it doesn't matter if he re-signs or not, the owners would prefer to sell the Hornets at a higher price. Now whether they've put a price on what the impact is by blocking this trade, that I don't know.

I think an argument could also be made that blocking the Paul trade also makes sense in terms of keeping the price tag on the team higher because the new CBA provides for greater revenue for the owners.

[Age]

I'll read everyone else's comments after I write this. Fuck Stern and the NBA.

Laker Fan.

[Antoine3323]

Im going to have agree with Killfactor here. I feel like actually improving the team would warrant a higher price tag for the Hornets. I dont believe that any potential buyer would buy the franchise strictly because of Chris Paul, especially, knowing he is going to leave.

So now, who's going to want to even try to trade with the Hornets after last night's debacle? It would seem like a frivolous effort

Now, it's being reported that Howard met with Nets owner and management last night in Miami, and the Magic are going to file for tampering. This mini-offseason is just getting stranger and stranger

It's sad to see Brandon Roy retire today. Such a great player and an overall good guy. He had real superstar potential

[Jay]

Looks like the Celtics are getting David West from New Orleans in a sign and trade for the carcass of Jermaine O'Neil and parts

Love it.

[SparksALot]

Yeah, that's a great deal. Gave up Big Baby too, but so worth it for West. I love that guy.

Sooo.... looks like the trade is back on! Apparently the Hornets and the Lakers are working on a deal that the NBA will approve. Conflicting reports all over about the actual deal. Some say Stern won't approve a deal with as much older talent and would rather see draft picks, prospects, etc in the deal, and that the Rockets may be out as the 3rd team and another may be involved. Some say it's the same deal, with Gasol going to Houston and Odom to the Hornets and the players from the Rockets changing. Who knows, only thing they agree on is that they are trying to get the trade done again. So it looks like one way or another CP3 is going to be a Laker. Yay?

One thing I will YAY about is Orlando seems to have finally gotten their answer from Howard, and have given the Lakers, Nets, and Mavs GMs permission to talk to Howard. Now, unless the Nets or Mavs blow Howard out of the water with an offer, he's the Lakers to have since they have the best player to offer in Bynum.

So after ALL of this crap, all the hullaballoo, it ends up a with a strong possibility that the Lakers still end up with Paul and Howard, the Celtics sign David West, the elite teams stay elite or get better, and Dan Gilbert look like an even bigger douche-bag. The NBA! It's fan-tastic!

[Antoine3323]

Looks like the Celtics are getting David West from New Orleans in a sign and trade for the carcass of Jermaine O'Neil and parts

Love it.

And, giving up Baby for Brandon Bass. The Celtics just got a lot better in my eyes

What's a good website to follow all this NBA news at? I hate having to use ESPN and NBA.com

Edit: Oh yea, and the Lakers just signed free agent Jason Kapono. They finally got that 3 pointer shooter they've been needing

This post has been edited by Antoine3323: Dec 10 2011, 7:48 AM

[fox]

probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com

And since all this has come out and any new owner will be aware of Chris Paul's departure anyways, hasn't the potential value increase he might have added to the franchise shot anyways?

This post has been edited by fox: Dec 10 2011, 7:51 AM

[SparksALot]

Twitter.com, follow @WojYahooNBA (Adrian Wojnarowski -broke the CP3 trade that was), @basketballtalk (Kurt Helin), @daldridgetnt (David Aldridge), with those three you won't miss a single bit of news. Hell with the first two you won't, they report everything. Woj breaks shit all time, writes good NBA articles for Y! Sports. Helin is a blogger for the basketball version of NBC's amazing Sports blogs and anything that happens is tweeted and blogged, usually within a few minutes for major news.

[mex-adilla]

i like scola. he's tenacious and brings the intangibles. i'm glad the trade was nixed, and with the uproar that it caused here in houston, i hope darryl morey gets scola off of the trading block.

[Antoine3323]

It looks like a slightly modified trade for CP3 is going to go through. No way Stern vetoes this one after the uproar last time. I just don't understand why the Lakers are still trying to do this knowing now that Howard wants to be in New Jersey. I just don't see a lot of upside

[SparksALot]

^Howard specifically asking for Jersey doesn't mean anything really. Paul specifically asked for New York, but he's going to LA because they have the better pieces. This applies here as well, to get Howard I've read Jersey would not only have to clear $5MM in cap space, but Orlando their best offer is no where near enough for Howard. So they need to find a 3rd team who will not only to take some bad contract off of them, but somehow sweeten the pot enough for Orlando. That's the reason his agent got permission to talk with LA and the Mavs as well. I'd say it's up in the air where he goes, really depending if Jersey can get a 3rd team and on what the Mavs offer them.

[SparksALot]

CP3 to Lakers trade is done. Lakers pulled out. I guess they couldn't appease the league, or find that last minute draft pick they were looking for to deal to the Hornets. Now they are saying they have trade Lamar Odom into Dallas' new trade exception they got from Chandler signing with the Knicks.

Matt Moore from BasketballTalk.com sums it up nicely:

To review: Mark Cuban blocks a trade for the Lakers to get Chris Paul, then inserts his team into conversations and winds up with Lamar Odom, using the trade exception he gained from letting his center go, which will allow the Lakers to pursue the best center in the league.

This post has been edited by SparksALot: Dec 10 2011, 9:14 PM

[Jay]

I'd like to see the Lakers get Dwight Howard less than CP3. Kobe is the PG in that offense. They don't need a CP3. Dwight Howard on the other hand would be a different story.

[SparksALot]

J.A. Adande said it best when he said "You know you've got it good when Dwight Howard is your plan B."

I generally feel the same way, although I think you are a bit wrong about "that offense". They aren't running the triangle anymore, so a PG is much more important. That said, having the best of the best PG isn't imperative. I understand where Kupchek was coming from, the NBA has become a PG driven league in recent years and Paul is the best. And while they do need a better PG, as I've said before I'd like to see what Brown cooked up around Gasol and Bynum. And if they have to replace Bynum with Howard, I'm OK with that. They do need a PG, though. Kobe has been quite snarky about his knees since he got the Stem Cell therapy in Belgium, and while they may be feeling better than they have in years having a real PG to run up and down the court would help a lot. Blake and Fisher just aren't the guys to do that.

[Antoine3323]

Guess the David West signing to Boston fell through. It looks like he's about to sign with the Pacers instead. They just became a decent team potentially

[JGNRN]

Paul to the Lakers fell through a second time. Odom off to Dallas. I don't see Howard ending up in LA.

[fox]

Since these deals didn't go down, you heard it here first: Kevin Love to the Lakers in a sign in trade next offseason.

[Antoine3323]

^That wouldnt surprise me at all. Glad to see you're so optimistic about your TWolves Fox

[SparksALot]

The Lakers are likely just going to ship the pick they got from Dallas off to another team for a PF to replace Odom and be done with it, play with the team they have now. I don't see them getting Howard either. Orlando was asking for Gasol AND Bynum. Fuck that. I don't give a shit how good Howard it, he's not worth gutting the heart of the team for. If the Magic think that Lopez and crap parts from NJ is a better deal than Bynum, go for it. See how they like it when their 7' center is having trouble grabbing more than 6 boards a game.

[Jay]

Sounds like Chris Paul is finally going to the Clippers.

[Antoine3323]

^And, now that fell through. Wtf does Stern realistically want? The guy is clearly showing he doesnt know shit about basketball

[fox]

Since these deals didn't go down, you heard it here first: Kevin Love to the Lakers in a sign in trade next offseason.

I think the Wolves are realistically 2 years away and Love is a huge chip to play with because he's a big name who probably is a great deal overvalued. If the Wolves can parlay that type of asset into something to put around a Rubio-Williams core, I'm all for it.

[jumpingoff]

Paul to the Clippers.

The Los Angeles Clippers have agreed to a deal in principle with the league-owned New Orleans Hornets to acquire guard Chris Paul, according to sources close to the process.

The Clippers, sources said, will send guard Eric Gordon, center Chris Kaman, forward Al-Farouq Aminu and Minnesota's unprotected 2012 first-round pick to the Hornets for Paul.

Follow Marc Stein on Twitter: @ESPNSteinLine

[JGNRN]

Paul to the Clippers.

The Los Angeles Clippers have agreed to a deal in principle with the league-owned New Orleans Hornets to acquire guard Chris Paul, according to sources close to the process.

The Clippers, sources said, will send guard Eric Gordon, center Chris Kaman, forward Al-Farouq Aminu and Minnesota's unprotected 2012 first-round pick to the Hornets for Paul.

Follow Marc Stein on Twitter: @ESPNSteinLine

I'm surprised that deal got done. It looked dead in the water twice. Clippers have a decent starting line up this year and could do some damage if Paul can stay healthy.

Howard is staying in Orlando too by the sounds of it.

[Hitman]

Damn. Eric Gordon and the TWolves unprotected 1st rounder? That's a price to pay.

[SparksALot]

^Indeed. Especially for a guy who may not (likely won't?) resign. I know Donald Sterling is nuts, but he must have something up his sleeve to convince Paul to stay.

Clippers have a decent starting line up this year and could do some damage if Paul can stay healthy.

Huh? The thing I don't understand is how people are already saying how amazing this team is going to be. Yeah, Griffin and Paul are beasts, but what kind of team do they have after them? Chauncey Billups? That guys a really nice player, but, uh, he's a point guard. He won't be on the court the same time as Paul. Plus he's gonna be PISSED that he's not starting and onbly gets max 20 minutes a game. Dude may end up retiring for the year. Caron Butler? He was a nice player 2 years ago. Now? I don't know. Jordan is a good athletic center, but hasn't ever started a full season, and aside from Butler they literally have zero good wing players and Butler isn't all that good either. Sure he'll score buckets, but he's the type of guy that has to throw up 15 shots to get 15 points. Not ideal in a line-up with Blake Griffin and Chris Paul.

My point is that the Clippers did exactly what I didn't want the Lakers to do when they were working on a trade for Paul, they gutted their team. Thing is for the Clippers they were crazy enough to do so with no guarantee that CP3 will stay with the team. If he resigns somewhere else after the season? Well, that's a steep price to pay for 66 games and a hand-full of playoff games.

Though I will say I can't say I'm happy with where the Lakers are right now. Josh McRoberts is a really nice player and many teams would be happy to have him coming off the bench, but he's not Odom. I realize Kupcheck got fucked in the ass by Stern and the NBA bitches... I mean owners, but still. Caving to Lamar crying was weak. Fuck that, he should have told him to suck it up and I'm sure once he was on the court with Kobe and Pau he would have been fine. But no, he trades him for fucking nothing to the Mavs of all teams? I don't understand that rationale. As pissed as Lamar was, you trade him to a rival? Idiotic and now the Lakers are worse off. Based off all that's gone on so far this offseason, I have a feeling it's going to be a looooong season in Laker-land.