So what are your opinions on the Trayvon shooting?, Another pop culture thread TOPIC OPTIONS

[Fitz]

That right there is the problem that I have with this whole Martin/Zimmerman story. It's become less about justice and more about using it to pump up the stock of the racial grievance industry. The usual crowd of Sharpton/Jackson/Spike Lee wanted this to be a hate crime; they wanted a victim of race, lack of information be damned. Spike Lee even re-tweeted what he though was Zimmerman's address. It wasn't.

What leads you to believe that race had nothing to do with this?

I didn't state or imply that idea. I don't think race was an explicit motivating factor for Zimmerman when he initially chose to follow Martin. It appears that Zimmerman believed that Martin looked suspicious for reasons that are unclear.

Do you think that if Martin had been a white man wearing a hoodie in a exclusive gated-community, Zimmerman would have called the police?

I think any answer that I would provide would be nothing more than speculation. I've read (correct me if I'm wrong here) that the community was less than 50% white, so it must have been a nightmare for Zimmerman to patrol.

Can you honestly imagine that this scenario--in all its facets--playing out if Martin had been anything other than a black male?

If Martin had been white then we wouldn't even be discussing this right now.

What is your investment in believing that race had little or nothing to do with this incident? What do you have invested in this?

I think you're projecting your opinion here. I have a fleeting interest in this story, nowhere near an investment. Initially to me it looked like a pretty simple case of racism and injustice. A white man....oops, I mean Hispanic...rent-a-cop in an orange jumpsuit targeted and murdered 17 year boy wearing a hoodie who looked like he was 12 years old in red Hollister shirt. That's the way the narrative was initially reported. I read stories about it but I didn't particularly invest myself in it. Then more information started to come out.

The 911 transcript in particular is what lead me to believe that there's been malpractice going on as far as reporting goes. There's nothing in that call that leads me to believe that this was a case of racism. Other stuff has come out too. What hasn't been released is the official police investigation or the coroner's examination; in other words official documents. Too many people are rushing to judge and using this incident to stir racial discontent.

It's on thing to argue for racial justice using research and analysis, but it's quite another to do so using incidents with too little and conflicting information, and that's exactly what has occurred here.

[MJOB]

Isn't Zimmerman supposed to be Hispanic? It seems to be everyone wants this to be a white on black situation when it's not, and that is the only part I am getting tired of. If this was a black kid killing a white neighborhood watch patrolman, it certainly wouldn't be national news. I think that should be equally concerning.

Yes, he is hispanic (though I guess he can pass for white, too). That certainly doesn't mean he can't be racist, and its nauseating when people think otherwise. Regardless, that doesn't change the central factor of Martin's blackness that was in play.

Regarding if this were a reverse situation, how many instances have there been of a black person killing a white person? Moreover, when that does occur, it may not receive the same amount of attention because the same structural forces/hierarchies are not in play.

Unfortunately, the media and minorities keep pretending only white people can be racists.

I wonder if Jesse, Al and the rest of their idiot crew realize Zimmerman is not a white boy

[Da Prince]

Dude (Sweet Cheetah), you didn't just "share your opinion". You pretty much sat there & told us all what's what, when the story is so big precisely because everyone has a different take on what happened, and how far the "Stand your ground" thing should go. If you want to act that sure of yourself when there's still so much uncertainty over what happened, you're pretty much inviting the flack you'll get. FoJ wasn't the only one who thought that first post of yours (maybe it wasn't your 1st but whatever) was completely retarded. I wouldn't have slammed you like he did, but that was a pretty over the top statement you let out, and it was inviting a response like that.

I thought after all the talking head "timeline" stories they did, that Zimmerman's story had more holes in it that Al Jourgensons face. Zimmerman has been portrayed as a gun toting nut since minute one of this fiasco by people that know.

"People that know"?! Seemed like that only right after the story came out, before the line about him walking back to his car & then getting attacked by Martin came into it. Then the witness accounts backing that up, with reports of Martin bashing Zimmerman's head on the concrete. Think that completely changes things, & it's already pretty apparent that some people involved now really don't give a shit what happened, they're more interested in pushing an agenda or protecting their own interests.

Moving on...

Anyone who brings up the "stand your ground" law to do anything except dismiss its relevance is either intentionally misleading the discussion, or ignorant.

+ 1

It's also great when shit like this comes out afterwards, as if it isn't the same damn crap that the crowds are complaining about being victims of themselves.



Now imagine if this was a group of white people, or another group attacking a single Black, Hispanic, or whatever minority is out there, how much press it would get.



Man attacked, robbed, and stripped naked by crowd

But because it was the other way around, nope, nothing, not a single damn mention in mainstream news, whether local or national.

But nope, guys like DrkVision won't even mention all this other crap that pops up because of an event like this, it's just a really simple, one-sided argument where there's clear victims & people to blame. Makes me ashamed to call myself a liberal sometimes.

This post has been edited by Da Prince: Apr 4 2012, 12:20 PM

[Da Prince]

It's also such a complete fucking joke they're calling Zimmerman a "Cracker" when he looks way more Hispanic or even like a terrorist suspect than the typical white person.

[SweetCheetah]

Now you're mad at me too Prince. I just honestly, 100% feel that Zimmerman was looking for someone to shoot and he found them. Not meaning to piss anybody off intentionally, I must just live in a nice neighborhood that isn't used to seeing people showing off hardware and following potential deviants around. Zimmerman sounded creepy from the beginning to me and his history being broadcasted just confirmed it. IMO of course.

[Jay]

Isn't Zimmerman supposed to be Hispanic? It seems to be everyone wants this to be a white on black situation when it's not, and that is the only part I am getting tired of. If this was a black kid killing a white neighborhood watch patrolman, it certainly wouldn't be national news. I think that should be equally concerning.

Yes, he is hispanic (though I guess he can pass for white, too). That certainly doesn't mean he can't be racist, and its nauseating when people think otherwise. Regardless, that doesn't change the central factor of Martin's blackness that was in play.

Regarding if this were a reverse situation, how many instances have there been of a black person killing a white person? Moreover, when that does occur, it may not receive the same amount of attention because the same structural forces/hierarchies are not in play.

1. Not saying he can't be racist, I am saying that people are quick to turn this into a white vs. black situation for their own selfish needs (re: Jackson/Sharpton/etc).

2. It happens way more often then white killing black, and it is extremely rare that it ever gets close to this amount of attention.

I don't know how to properly put this without saying it wrong, but after working in "the hood" in Jacksonville, I completely understand why some semblance of racism exists in the south. It's "their" culture. I was legitimately scared living in one of the places I lived and sometimes even working where I worked. I really think a huge portion of "that" population needs to change the way they live before there is ever any real progress. It's not fair to be guilty by association just like it's not fair to give the benefit of the doubt and pay for it.

There's no perfect answer or solution, but I don't think it is unreasonable to think that maybe that community as a whole needs to be a bit more introspective and figure out what they can do to improve perception, because it is clearly a two way street.

But clearly being a thug in the south isn't just a black thing. Take former Bury Your Dead guitarist Eric Ellis for example:

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-03...ed-sons-anarchy

[DrkVision]

FOJ:

I was a pretty detailed response to you, and my shitty computer crashed. I will respond to you later in the evening, as I'm way too frustrated to begin all over again. Anyway, I don't imagine that you're waiting with baited-breath for what I have to say.

This post has been edited by DrkVision: Apr 4 2012, 1:54 PM

[Da Prince]

36 posts so far, not bad. Not bad at all.

[Disposable Hero]

If there are no witnesses and it's one mans word against a dead man, and the physical evidence is inconclusive, then the surviving person should be presumed guilty? Am I understanding your meaning correctly?

No no no. Of course he should be presumed not guilty. But therein lies the problem, and the fact that something like this is open to manipulation. If there is inconclusive evidence and the law protects him then regardless of what I or anyone else thinks, he clearly should be not guilty. I'm not up for convictions based on the emotions of the population. But when there are no witnesses, the physical evidence is always likely to be inconclusive, and you have a law that states as long as the person believed he needed to use that force, then he was justified in doing so. If that's not a can of worms I don't know what is.

[jumpingoff]

"I don't know how to properly put this without saying it wrong, but after working in "the hood" in Jacksonville, I completely understand why some semblance of racism exists in the south."

Jay I'm confused by this. Do these types on neighborhoods not exist where you live?

[SweetCheetah]

Has there ever been so much dissention and infighting on a thread here before?

[Dislecsyk]

There's not anything even remotely ferocious about this thread by this board's standards

[DaNk]

"I don't know how to properly put this without saying it wrong, but after working in "the hood" in Jacksonville, I completely understand why some semblance of racism exists in the south."

Jay I'm confused by this. Do these types on neighborhoods not exist where you live?

I think what Jay is saying is that those types of neighborhoods aren't nearly as prevalent in Mass as they are in the southern U.S. like Georgia, Florida, Alabama and so on...

[SparksALot]

Has there ever been so much dissention and infighting on a thread here before?

!!!

Dude, this is nothing...

[SweetCheetah]

Has there ever been so much dissention and infighting on a thread here before?

!!!

Dude, this is nothing...

Just asking because I cried myself to sleep last night. I'm a sensitive guy. Can't we all just get along??

[Fitz]

Has there ever been so much dissention and infighting on a thread here before?

!!!

Dude, this is nothing...

This made me think of the Archives on Yuku, so I checked and sure enough it's still there (and hopefully the powers that be will keep it that way). Check out the EVERYONE READ THIS!!!! thread. It's funny to read how 9 years ago people were predicting the end of the board because we couldn't get along .

[fatjohn79]

Has there ever been so much dissention and infighting on a thread here before?

!!!

Dude, this is nothing...

This made me think of the Archives on Yuku, so I checked and sure enough it's still there (and hopefully the powers that be will keep it that way). Check out the EVERYONE READ THIS!!!! thread. It's funny to read how 9 years ago people were predicting the end of the board because we couldn't get along .

http://themachineheadforum.yuku.com/

[Faith of Judas]

If there are no witnesses and it's one mans word against a dead man, and the physical evidence is inconclusive, then the surviving person should be presumed guilty? Am I understanding your meaning correctly?

No no no. Of course he should be presumed not guilty. But therein lies the problem, and the fact that something like this is open to manipulation. If there is inconclusive evidence and the law protects him then regardless of what I or anyone else thinks, he clearly should be not guilty. I'm not up for convictions based on the emotions of the population. But when there are no witnesses, the physical evidence is always likely to be inconclusive, and you have a law that states as long as the person believed he needed to use that force, then he was justified in doing so. If that's not a can of worms I don't know what is.

What do you imagine a more appropriate alternative is?

I honestly can't quite figure out what you're getting at here.

[informed]

looks or race dont matter. two guys got in an altercation and one shot the other. i dont think zimmerman is racist. this happens almost everyday in oakland (3 babies killed in the last year) and the press dont say shit. oh yeah...zimmermans daddy a local magistrate...zimmermans has a record but has never been punished for some reason...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=46...8&#46971618

This post has been edited by informed: Apr 5 2012, 5:20 PM

[Jay]

"I don't know how to properly put this without saying it wrong, but after working in "the hood" in Jacksonville, I completely understand why some semblance of racism exists in the south."

Jay I'm confused by this. Do these types on neighborhoods not exist where you live?

Nothing like Jacksonville. Or Orlando. Or Tampa. Or Miami.

This post has been edited by Jay: Apr 5 2012, 5:58 PM

[Da Prince]

Damn, I didn't realize the South was that bad. But after reading that huge list of the most dangerous cities in the US per capita, there's shit tons of cities from the South. I was like WTF?! Figured even the bigger, more famous cities & areas out East, in the Midwest, & on the West Coast were worse even with their huge populations. Guess not.

I think his dress had something to do with it too. If he was dressed up in all Abercrombie & Fitch gear I don't think he would have freaked Zimmerman out as much, or dressed like a Mormon. But anyone in a hoodie and maybe some baggy pants is gonna look more shady than anyone else.

[Jay]

It was just the perfect storm. Overbearing, wannabe cop strapped with a gun followed a kid and something bad happened. I don't think it would have mattered if he was black, white, purple or green. This dude called the cops on everything, and this time something happened. The kid just happened to be black.

[informed]

But anyone in a hoodie and maybe some baggy pants is gonna look more shady than anyone else.

YOU ARE KIDDING RIGHT? or should i call you geraldo?

[nineeight]

the racial issues are so outta hand in America that, being white, I am actually afraid of uttering a race name out loud.

example, I bought something at the store from a Mexican guy. when I took it back they asked me, "who helped you?" and my answer was, "a man with brown hair".




had I said a Mexican guy, she probably would have known who it was and could have speeded up the return, but I was not in a hurry, so I just smiled and waited for her to do it. everything worked out fine.

it is just kinda sad that it had gone this far, and that people are so sensitive. when I get called a fat white broad I don't care.

[jumpingoff]

Has there ever been so much dissention and infighting on a thread here before?

!!!

Dude, this is nothing...

This made me think of the Archives on Yuku, so I checked and sure enough it's still there (and hopefully the powers that be will keep it that way). Check out the EVERYONE READ THIS!!!! thread. It's funny to read how 9 years ago people were predicting the end of the board because we couldn't get along .

http://themachineheadforum.yuku.com/

Fuck I miss the Archives. Thank you for posting that link. Never knew it was still out there somewhere. Ownery!

[jumpingoff]

Damn, I didn't realize the South was that bad. But after reading that huge list of the most dangerous cities in the US per capita, there's shit tons of cities from the South. I was like WTF?! Figured even the bigger, more famous cities & areas out East, in the Midwest, & on the West Coast were worse even with their huge populations. Guess not.

I think his dress had something to do with it too. If he was dressed up in all Abercrombie & Fitch gear I don't think he would have freaked Zimmerman out as much, or dressed like a Mormon. But anyone in a hoodie and maybe some baggy pants is gonna look more shady than anyone else.

What list?

[Da Prince]

I think it was a list of like the top 250 or even 500 worst cities, or maybe ever city in America that had a medium to large population. So even smaller cities showed up, & it really showed you which cities/suburbs were the worst per capita.

YOU ARE KIDDING RIGHT? or should i call you geraldo?

No, I'm not. And please spare us the fake outrage. You know how the average suburbanite or yuppy thinks, & I'm pretty sure as much as you want to appear open-minded here, let's say you're loading your music gear late one night by yourself for a few minutes & you see somebody walking towards your way. Which would have you 2nd guessing what's gonna happen?

a) Mormons walking by with their suits & ties
b) Cali skater kids just laughing or bs'ing with eachother
c) A guy with a briefcase & suit
d) A person (any color) in a hoody hiding their face for the most part, with baggy pants
e) A soccer-mom with a stroller
f) Swampy staring you down hard with a goofy looking grin & wiping his lips with his tongue in anticipation (forget that one, u already know what that is all about so no surprise)

If you can't answer that truthfully, you're just bs'ing. Oh yeah, and you said yourself you've been mugged a bunch of times over the years. Go ahead & honestly describe the people who did that, and what they were dressed like. I know damn well none of them had tapered business slacks, Birkenstocks, & a dress shirt on.

This post has been edited by Da Prince: Apr 6 2012, 3:14 PM

[Faith of Judas]

Literally everyone I know who's been mugged has been mugged more than once.

Some people just have no situational awareness whatsoever, and get themselves fucked up repeatedly because they refuse to learn.

[informed]

No, I'm not. And please spare us the fake outrage. You know how the average suburbanite or yuppy thinks, & I'm pretty sure as much as you want to appear open-minded here, let's say you're loading your music gear late one night by yourself for a few minutes & you see somebody walking towards your way. Which would have you 2nd guessing what's gonna happen?

a) Mormons walking by with their suits & ties
b) Cali skater kids just laughing or bs'ing with eachother
c) A guy with a briefcase & suit
d) A person (any color) in a hoody hiding their face for the most part, with baggy pants
e) A soccer-mom with a stroller
f) Swampy staring you down hard with a goofy looking grin & wiping his lips with his tongue in anticipation (forget that one, u already know what that is all about so no surprise)

If you can't answer that truthfully, you're just bs'ing. Oh yeah, and you said yourself you've been mugged a bunch of times over the years. Go ahead & honestly describe the people who did that, and what they were dressed like. I know damn well none of them had tapered business slacks, Birkenstocks, & a dress shirt on.

you assume way too much and have a mis-guided imagination. i am embarrassed for you. really wow. the old adage still rings true, you can never judge a book by its cover, and if you do you are a inexperienced fool.

[CycoXIII]

i'd watch out for the cali skater kids. then the mormons.